You should list as limb weights, not draw weights.

Home Forums Archery Tech Forum You should list as limb weights, not draw weights.

This topic contains 44 replies, has 11 contributors, and was last updated by spurhunter spurhunter 1 year, 11 months ago.

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  • January 4, 2013 at 3:35 am #545954 Back to Top REPORT
    jeffgothro
    JeffGothro

    Age: 44
    Joined: 11/16/2012
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    While I didnt ask the dealer specifically if he would do anything, I assume he wont as of he was the one who pointed out to me limbs have different draw weights and I told him today 60-70 is to much for me – Mathews has be contacted, awaiting reply.

    With a few exceptions, I think I’m going to do business online now and get help here (well, if my dealer doesn’t help me out – he should though, I’ve poured roughly 1,500$ just over the past 4 months or so into his little store).

    January 4, 2013 at 3:46 am #545955 Back to Top REPORT
    jeffgothro
    JeffGothro

    Age: 44
    Joined: 11/16/2012
    View My Bows

    not to get testy but,when there are several DIFFERENT draw weights listed,such as 40,50,60,70,this does NOT mean the same as 40-70lb. it’s very hard to believe that in all of the research you did,this never came to light for you. archery is a very fun but complex sport which does take knowledge to fully enjoy, there are many options in many areas of the setup,many of which a good proshop should help the beginner with. it’s unfortunate that this was overlooked,but if you struggled with the draw weight from the get go,this certainly should have been talked about before purchase. there is no fault on Mathews part,but possibly on how you read what was in print.

    Unfortunately I have to agree with 99 on this one. Below is a copy/paste straight for the he will’m’s spec page when you click on the draw weight options that says 40-70# and 65# for the “Mathews 101″.

    http://mathewsinc.com/product/helim/#specs
    http://mathewsinc.com/bows/mathews-101/specs-101/#dw

    This is simply the minimum and maximum amount of weight required to bring the bow to full draw. Typically, this weight range is 10 pounds. For instance, a bow with a 60 pound peak draw weight will have a minimum of 50 pounds. Likewise, a 70 pound draw will carry a minimum draw-weight of 60 lbs. Overall draw weight can be increased or reduced (within this 10 pound range) by simply tightening or loosening the limb-bolts on each limb…read more[/quote:61sxnzr1]

    Well, they (Mathews) needs to be more specific about that on there product pages. Not all of us “get it” or have enough information to know better and make an informed decision..[/quote:61sxnzr1]

    That is straight from the product spec page so they do explain it clearly as I also initially did as well. I am sorry that you did not understand it but it is stated on their website for all of their bows when you go to the specs and highlight each spec. If you clicked the links I pasted above you would see they not only have a dedicated page for it, also in the owners manual but they also have it as a pop-out to the right of each of the specs when you high light it.

    Again I am sorry but I cannot see you passing blame on this one since it is in multiple parts of their website and in the owners manuals. I realize you are new to archery which makes this very frustrating given it is such a large investment but I would recommend you go back to your dealer or another dealer in your area and have them call Mathews. Explain your position to Mathews to see if they would swap your limbs out for you at no cost or maybe just the cost of labor. [=}=] [=}=][/quote:61sxnzr1]

    Ok, then perhaps they should create seperate product pages for each Helim bow so there is no confusion for newbe’s like myself. And I’m going to tell you why, I’ve been a bicycle mechanic for nearly 37 year – I KNOW NEARLY EVERYTHING about bicycles, and most or a lot bicycles use the same exact frame for a product line. (Example : A Trek model 600 is the same exact frame as the 700 model, generally the parts and paint job are the only things that set the two bikes apart – however they both get there own seperate product pages dispite its the same exact frame.

    If a single bow can be adjusted from 40-70, list it as such, if it has different weights, and only has a 10lb worth of ajustability, then give all three weights on a seperate page, 40lbs get its own page, 65lbs gets its on page and so on.

    And thanks for trying to make me feel better….yes, I’m very frusterate and upset.

    January 4, 2013 at 5:17 am #545956 Back to Top REPORT

    boilerfarmer12

    Joined: 12/7/2012
    Where did you research? I too blame the dealer for not explaining the 10# increments. But that is common. Very few bows go more than the 10#. I do feel sorry for you.

    I dont agree with your statement about a different page for every limb weight. 99% of archers understand the 10# increments. They dont use different parts the limbs just have different deflections or stiffness which gives the different weights. Same parts just with different deflections. All the limbs will say SE# and are interchangeable between the same model.

    January 4, 2013 at 6:29 am #545957 Back to Top REPORT
    jeffgothro
    JeffGothro

    Age: 44
    Joined: 11/16/2012
    View My Bows

    Where did you research? I too blame the dealer for not explaining the 10# increments. But that is common. Very few bows go more than the 10#. I do feel sorry for you.

    I dont agree with your statement about a different page for every limb weight. 99% of archers understand the 10# increments. They dont use different parts the limbs just have different deflections or stiffness which gives the different weights. Same parts just with different deflections. All the limbs will say SE# and are interchangeable between the same model.[/quote:2p49nrdr]

    Yes, multible pages are a bit redundant I agree, but for the 1% of us out there I think it may simplify things a little. Most of my research came from huntersfriend.com website…and I read probably the equivelent of a short book worth of reviews on everything from bows to peep-sights. Don’t feel to sorry for me, I do have to take responsibilty here too, the site DOES clearly explain as pointed out to me the 10lb increments – but for some reason, it just didnt register with me, I guess I was more under the impression a bow thats 50,60,70 is adjustable to ALL of those weights – but only in 10lb increments (example: my bow hypothetically can be adjusted from 50-70, but not 65lb or 55lb – ONLY 50,60,70 – I think this is where I failed to really understand or “get it”. So yeah, thats kinda I think what you ment, if so, then yes, thats exactly the case.

    January 4, 2013 at 12:47 pm #545958 Back to Top REPORT
    danf
    DanF

    Age: 45
    Joined: 1/23/2007
    Location: PA
    View My Bows
    Sounds like your dealer misled you. If the adjustability of draw weights is what you truely wanted and stated that to him, he shoud have tried to steer you toward a mission bow which is owned and made by Mathews. Many of those bows are adjustable for several different pound increments not just 10. No fault of Mathews here. Just you and your dealer. Sorry this is how things are working out for you. Maybe if you explain to your dealer the misinformation he can swap the limbs for you!!! Good luck!!! [=}=]
    January 4, 2013 at 3:08 pm #545959 Back to Top REPORT
    jeffgothro
    JeffGothro

    Age: 44
    Joined: 11/16/2012
    View My Bows
    Sounds like your dealer misled you. If the adjustability of draw weights is what you truely wanted and stated that to him, he shoud have tried to steer you toward a mission bow which is owned and made by Mathews. Many of those bows are adjustable for several different pound increments not just 10. No fault of Mathews here. Just you and your dealer. Sorry this is how things are working out for you. Maybe if you explain to your dealer the misinformation he can swap the limbs for you!!! Good luck!!! [=}=]

    He did offer me a Mission bow – all of them (except youth), I told him no, I want a top of the line bow. [-(

    Come to think of it – my Quest bow might as well be a 300.00 paper weight to, its to heavy for me to shoot given what I know now.

    Quest draw weights. 50-, 60-, 70- and 80-pound peak – I have the 70lb. ](*,)

    January 4, 2013 at 3:35 pm #545960 Back to Top REPORT

    boilerfarmer12

    Joined: 12/7/2012
    Missions are still really nice bows. they are made right alongside the Mathews line, as I have been told. My cousin has a UX2 i bought and sold him. I thought about keeping it for myself but I dislike binary cam bows. Missions Voyager is a sweet looking rig but does not have the adjustability as some of the other Missions.

    Not to rag on you but this is why a lot of people dislike Mathews shooters. People new to archery refuse to look at other brands do to the hype that Mathews creates through advertising. Im not saying it is bad, but it does turn a lot of people off. If you truly love Mathews, great. But for someone just getting in, I couldnt imagine dropping the coin you did. If I was a dealer I would urge newbs to get an adjustable bow. A lot of Martins adjust 15 lbs. If you want to stay loyal to Mathews, Mission would have been the way to go to get adjustability.

    Which Quest do you have? You could always trying selling it on Archerytalk or ebay.

    Why not turn the weight down all the way on both and practice shooting. The more you shoot the more your muscles will become accustomed to shooting. You could leave it at the weight you are shooting or every couple week or so, crank the weight up a couple pounds. Just a thought.

    January 4, 2013 at 3:53 pm #545961 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    You have a few options:
    1. You could purchase 60# limbs or 50# limbs for the HeliM, which would likely max a few ‘bonus’ pounds over rated DW, and could be backed off to 10# less than maximum rated DW. Then sell the 70# limbs on Archery Talk Classifieds or eBay and likely be out of pocket no more than $100.

    2. You could sell the HeliM, then buy a Creed with 60# limbs. Out of pocket about $200.

    3. You could sell the Helim, then buy a different Mathews bow in the $800 price range, like the ZXT, with 60# limbs with no additional money out of pocket.

    4. You could sell the HeliM, then buy the Mission Voyager for $700 MSRP ( more likely about $650 dealer price) and not be any additional money out of pocket. The Voyager is rated the same IBO speed as the HeliM, has a much better string angle, with a DW that is adjustable in more than a 10# range. I would recommend 60# limbs which can be lowered to as little as 42#.[/b:87o0zdcu]

    http://missionarchery.com/product/voyag … ustability
    http://missionarchery.com/product/voyager-xt/#specs

    “Best” means many things, what is ‘best’ in a hunting bow is not what ‘best’ is in a target bow. Also, as a beginner, you don’t need the “best” there is on the market to get an accurate and forgiving bow (Forgiving refers to the bows tolerance for variations in shot-to-shot execution) . In fact, often the ‘best’ requires a moderate to high level of proficiency in form and shot execution, such was the case with the Mathews/McPherson introduction of the Monster-series.

    You don’t need 70# DW to hunt. With a bow IBO rate 330 fps, 60# limbs are more than ample for Elk, Deer, Turkey, etc. Some target venues limit the maximum DW to 60#.

    A short bow ATA is only advantageous if you intend to hunt and need the maneuverability in tight quarters. If target shooting and shooting enjoyment is your primary interest, then the Mathews Conquest-series is where you should be looking. Unfortunately, one of the Conquest bows will be about $400 more out of pocket after selling the HeliM. An economical Target bow option would be the Mission Rally, with an MSRP of $500 and inexpensive DW adjustability using DW modules, you would have a very nice and forgiving Indoor ‘spot’ bow.
    http://missionarchery.com/product/rally/

    A lightweight bow is only advantageous if you intend to carry it long distances. Target bows are heavy because mass weight steadies the sight picture, and normally more mass weight is added with long stabilizers and rear weights, V-bars or Sidebar to improve the steadiness.

    I would recommend you give strong consideration to Option #4, or another bow in the Mission Archery line that more suites your needs, such as the Rally.

    Sorry to hear about your problems … but you are not out of options. [=}=]

    January 4, 2013 at 4:11 pm #545962 Back to Top REPORT
    danf
    DanF

    Age: 45
    Joined: 1/23/2007
    Location: PA
    View My Bows
    If the draw weight of the bow was that much of a concern, a simple question to your dealer as to what weight you are buying what have been sufficient. You could have asked him if in fact the bow was as adjustable as you thought it was just to be sure. After all, you were spending an aweful lot of money on something you were not sure of. But as stated from gjarcher, you still do have many options. Dont give up on archery over frustration. Use this as a tool to teach yourself and become more educated on the subject. I know this can all be very frustrating and confusing, but blaming everybody else and not accepting any of the blame yourself is not the answer. There is a ton that can be learned right here on this sight from some very knowledgable people. They are always willing to help, all you have to do is ask!!!! :thumbup
    January 4, 2013 at 4:33 pm #545963 Back to Top REPORT
    jeffgothro
    JeffGothro

    Age: 44
    Joined: 11/16/2012
    View My Bows

    Missions are still really nice bows. they are made right alongside the Mathews line, as I have been told. My cousin has a UX2 i bought and sold him. I thought about keeping it for myself but I dislike binary cam bows. Missions Voyager is a sweet looking rig but does not have the adjustability as some of the other Missions.

    Not to rag on you but this is why a lot of people dislike Mathews shooters. People new to archery refuse to look at other brands do to the hype that Mathews creates through advertising. Im not saying it is bad, but it does turn a lot of people off. If you truly love Mathews, great. But for someone just getting in, I couldnt imagine dropping the coin you did. If I was a dealer I would urge newbs to get an adjustable bow. A lot of Martins adjust 15 lbs. If you want to stay loyal to Mathews, Mission would have been the way to go to get adjustability.

    Which Quest do you have? You could always trying selling it on Archerytalk or ebay.

    Why not turn the weight down all the way on both and practice shooting. The more you shoot the more your muscles will become accustomed to shooting. You could leave it at the weight you are shooting or every couple week or so, crank the weight up a couple pounds. Just a thought.[/quote:3okjp4vh]

    I bought a Mathews because of all the reviews I read, and I like the bow, it looks like a pretty sweet friggin bow – that aside, the other reason I bought it is because I have been a bicycle mechanic for nearly 38 years, I have raced, won races, worked at bike shoops, the whole 9 yards, but thats still a little besides the point. In the bicycle industery you really get what you pay for, for me, I buy the best, I own bicycles that cost in the thousands of dollars (mabie even more expensive then some of the cars some of you might own). Its been my experience, when I buy cheap parts and junky walmart bikes, the stuff never last, I dont waste my time with that stuff, its cheap, and it breaks. Its also been my experince, when you have the right equipment to do the job (150.00$ walmart bike vs a 4,000 titanium bike) things change quite a lot – I can do things on the titanium bike I could never dream of on the walmart bike, not only that, but the ti bike is much funner to ride and it will last me many more years to come without out having to worry about parts suddenly breaking all the time.

    So, I applied this same philosophy when buying a bow. To quote you “If I was a dealer I would urge newbs to get an adjustable bow.” – he did, but I told him I wanted a better bow, I specifically told him, I dont want your newbe walmart bows and parts – GIVE ME THE GOOD STUFF THE PRO’S SHOOT.

    January 4, 2013 at 4:40 pm #545964 Back to Top REPORT
    jeffgothro
    JeffGothro

    Age: 44
    Joined: 11/16/2012
    View My Bows
    If the draw weight of the bow was that much of a concern, a simple question to your dealer as to what weight you are buying what have been sufficient. You could have asked him if in fact the bow was as adjustable as you thought it was just to be sure. After all, you were spending an aweful lot of money on something you were not sure of. But as stated from gjarcher, you still do have many options. Dont give up on archery over frustration. Use this as a tool to teach yourself and become more educated on the subject. I know this can all be very frustrating and confusing, but blaming everybody else and not accepting any of the blame yourself is not the answer. There is a ton that can be learned right here on this sight from some very knowledgable people. They are always willing to help, all you have to do is ask!!!! :thumbup

    I did take responsibilty, I realize that…(yes, I was quite a bit more upset last night and was having trouble sorting this all out in my head), but if you go back and re-read what I said, I mention its partly my fault to for not understanding, it clearly states on the Mathews website draw weights and what they pertain to, and I just didnt “get it” – so, my bad ok, I do take responsibily at least somewhat. Maybe no one is to blame here….but rather, everyone (well, mostly my dealer and me – not Mathews so much) are the the ones to blame, its my dealers fault for not spelling this out more clearly to me – and well, I guess I need to try to understand more too.

    January 4, 2013 at 4:53 pm #545965 Back to Top REPORT
    jeffgothro
    JeffGothro

    Age: 44
    Joined: 11/16/2012
    View My Bows

    4. You could sell the HeliM, then buy the Mission Voyager for $700 MSRP ( more likely about $650 dealer price) and not be any additional money out of pocket. The Voyager is rated the same IBO speed as the HeliM, has a much better string angle, with a DW that is adjustable in more than a 10# range. I would recommend 60# limbs which can be lowered to as little as 42#.[/b]

    http://missionarchery.com/product/voyag … ustability
    http://missionarchery.com/product/voyager-xt/#specs

    “Best” means many things, what is ‘best’ in a hunting bow is not what ‘best’ is in a target bow. Also, as a beginner, you don’t need the “best” there is on the market to get an accurate and forgiving bow (Forgiving refers to the bows tolerance for variations in shot-to-shot execution) . In fact, often the ‘best’ requires a moderate to high level of proficiency in form and shot execution, such was the case with the Mathews/McPherson introduction of the Monster-series.

    You don’t need 70# DW to hunt. With a bow IBO rate 330 fps, 60# limbs are more than ample for Elk, Deer, Turkey, etc. Some target venues limit the maximum DW to 60#.

    A short bow ATA is only advantageous if you intend to hunt and need the maneuverability in tight quarters. If target shooting and shooting enjoyment is your primary interest, then the Mathews Conquest-series is where you should be looking. Unfortunately, one of the Conquest bows will be about $400 more out of pocket after selling the HeliM. An economical Target bow option would be the Mission Rally, with an MSRP of $500 and inexpensive DW adjustability using DW modules, you would have a very nice and forgiving Indoor ‘spot’ bow.
    http://missionarchery.com/product/rally/

    A lightweight bow is only advantageous if you intend to carry it long distances. Target bows are heavy because mass weight steadies the sight picture, and normally more mass weight is added with long stabilizers and rear weights, V-bars or Sidebar to improve the steadiness.

    I would recommend you give strong consideration to Option #4, or another bow in the Mission Archery line that more suites your needs, such as the Rally.

    Sorry to hear about your problems … but you are not out of options. [=}=][/quote:3slzozil]

    Hmmmm…Creed – that bow was named after me, well, not really, but my mothers mother (my grandma) last name was CREED before she married my grampa.

    Gonna see if Mathews will help me out on this, or work some kind of deal out – I’ed really like to keep the Helim if possible.

    January 4, 2013 at 5:20 pm #545966 Back to Top REPORT
    danf
    DanF

    Age: 45
    Joined: 1/23/2007
    Location: PA
    View My Bows

    Missions are still really nice bows. they are made right alongside the Mathews line, as I have been told. My cousin has a UX2 i bought and sold him. I thought about keeping it for myself but I dislike binary cam bows. Missions Voyager is a sweet looking rig but does not have the adjustability as some of the other Missions.

    Not to rag on you but this is why a lot of people dislike Mathews shooters. People new to archery refuse to look at other brands do to the hype that Mathews creates through advertising. Im not saying it is bad, but it does turn a lot of people off. If you truly love Mathews, great. But for someone just getting in, I couldnt imagine dropping the coin you did. If I was a dealer I would urge newbs to get an adjustable bow. A lot of Martins adjust 15 lbs. If you want to stay loyal to Mathews, Mission would have been the way to go to get adjustability.

    Which Quest do you have? You could always trying selling it on Archerytalk or ebay.

    Why not turn the weight down all the way on both and practice shooting. The more you shoot the more your muscles will become accustomed to shooting. You could leave it at the weight you are shooting or every couple week or so, crank the weight up a couple pounds. Just a thought.[/quote:2qhqj43w]

    I bought a Mathews because of all the reviews I read, and I like the bow, it looks like a pretty sweet friggin bow – that aside, the other reason I bought it is because I have been a bicycle mechanic for nearly 38 years, I have raced, won races, worked at bike shoops, the whole 9 yards, but thats still a little besides the point. In the bicycle industery you really get what you pay for, for me, I buy the best, I own bicycles that cost in the thousands of dollars (mabie even more expensive then some of the cars some of you might own). Its been my experience, when I buy cheap parts and junky walmart bikes, the stuff never last, I dont waste my time with that stuff, its cheap, and it breaks. Its also been my experince, when you have the right equipment to do the job (150.00$ walmart bike vs a 4,000 titanium bike) things change quite a lot – I can do things on the titanium bike I could never dream of on the walmart bike, not only that, but the ti bike is much funner to ride and it will last me many more years to come without out having to worry about parts suddenly breaking all the time.

    So, I applied this same philosophy when buying a bow. To quote you “If I was a dealer I would urge newbs to get an adjustable bow.” – he did, but I told him I wanted a better bow, I specifically told him, I dont want your newbe walmart bows and parts – GIVE ME THE GOOD STUFF THE PRO’S SHOOT.[/quote:2qhqj43w]

    Mission line of bows is not junk nor is it Walmart newbe stuff. A bow is only as good as the person shooting it. Many a deer have been shot and killed with other bows than Mathews. They dont get any deader because they are shot with a Mathews. Your applied philosophy in my opinion is rather bogus. While I do agree with you that the Mathews line of bows is heads and tails above the rest it wont make you a better archer.

    January 4, 2013 at 5:22 pm #545967 Back to Top REPORT
    blood-bath2006
    Blood Bath2006

    Joined: 10/14/2006

    Missions are still really nice bows. they are made right alongside the Mathews line, as I have been told. My cousin has a UX2 i bought and sold him. I thought about keeping it for myself but I dislike binary cam bows. Missions Voyager is a sweet looking rig but does not have the adjustability as some of the other Missions.

    Not to rag on you but this is why a lot of people dislike Mathews shooters. People new to archery refuse to look at other brands do to the hype that Mathews creates through advertising. Im not saying it is bad, but it does turn a lot of people off. If you truly love Mathews, great. But for someone just getting in, I couldnt imagine dropping the coin you did. If I was a dealer I would urge newbs to get an adjustable bow. A lot of Martins adjust 15 lbs. If you want to stay loyal to Mathews, Mission would have been the way to go to get adjustability.

    Which Quest do you have? You could always trying selling it on Archerytalk or ebay.

    Why not turn the weight down all the way on both and practice shooting. The more you shoot the more your muscles will become accustomed to shooting. You could leave it at the weight you are shooting or every couple week or so, crank the weight up a couple pounds. Just a thought.[/quote:1zmh0yms]

    I bought a Mathews because of all the reviews I read, and I like the bow, it looks like a pretty sweet friggin bow – that aside, the other reason I bought it is because I have been a bicycle mechanic for nearly 38 years, I have raced, won races, worked at bike shoops, the whole 9 yards, but thats still a little besides the point. In the bicycle industery you really get what you pay for, for me, I buy the best, I own bicycles that cost in the thousands of dollars (mabie even more expensive then some of the cars some of you might own). Its been my experience, when I buy cheap parts and junky walmart bikes, the stuff never last, I dont waste my time with that stuff, its cheap, and it breaks. Its also been my experince, when you have the right equipment to do the job (150.00$ walmart bike vs a 4,000 titanium bike) things change quite a lot – I can do things on the titanium bike I could never dream of on the walmart bike, not only that, but the ti bike is much funner to ride and it will last me many more years to come without out having to worry about parts suddenly breaking all the time.

    So, I applied this same philosophy when buying a bow. To quote you “If I was a dealer I would urge newbs to get an adjustable bow.” – he did, but I told him I wanted a better bow, I specifically told him, I dont want your newbe walmart bows and parts – GIVE ME THE GOOD STUFF THE PRO’S SHOOT.[/quote:1zmh0yms]

    So you want to become a pro right out of the gate?

    Most people will never use a Ti bike enough to justify the cost, just like most people will never use a Helim enough to justify the cost.

    The Mission “WalMart” bows will do everything the top dollar bows will do because the Mission line bows are NOT the same as Wal-Mart bikes. Instead of researching by reading you should have talked to multiple archers like you are doing now. Just because you spend top dollar on a product, doesn’t mean you will go out and win the Tour de France ;) Same thing with bows.

    January 4, 2013 at 5:49 pm #545968 Back to Top REPORT
    jeffgothro
    JeffGothro

    Age: 44
    Joined: 11/16/2012
    View My Bows
    I think you mis-understood me, my bad – wasnt calling Mission Walmart stuff (in fact, no where in my post did I specifically relate to a Mission Bow as a walmart item). Also more to the point, when I was refering to walmart, it was sort of a blanket statement in general.

    I’ll give you an example: I currently have Cobras cheapest 30.00$ sight on my bow, half of it is made of plastic, while it serves the purpose, its cheap or you could say walmartish in quality – I would never use this site for serious hunting or target archery.

    On the other hand – the sight I want is a HHA sight, the model I have in mind is machiened out of aluminum and cost about a hundred bucks – now do see what I mean when I say I want the “pro stuff”? Sorry for the confusion.

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