Tuning question

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 3 contributors, and was last updated by  handirifle 1 year, 9 months ago.

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  • November 6, 2012 at 4:59 am #496799 Back to Top REPORT

    handirifle

    Joined: 7/6/2011
    OK I have gotten pretty familiar with bare shaft tuning my recurve bow, but been some time since I tried new arrows/heads on my Mathews.

    I shoot left handed, so for most guys my results are opposite theirs.

    Here goes my question.

    When shooting my recurve (shooting fingers, off the shelf, no flipper rest or button), and the head weight for that particular shaft and length, is too heavy (weak spine) the tail of the arrow kicks out to the right. As I lighten the tip weight, with no other change, I see the tail come back to the center. If I get the arrow length and tip weight just right, it flies straight, unfletched.

    If i do this with my Mathews, shooting with release, and whisker biscuit rest, and the point is much heavier than the shaft has shot before, it shoots tail hard left, indicating the shaft is too stiff, right?

    These same arrows were paper tuned to 125gr heads, and left a perfect triangle in the paper, and have been very accurate. I have tried field points all the way up to 290gr and they still kick tail left. What am I reading wrong here?

    November 6, 2012 at 9:41 pm #539749 Back to Top REPORT

    handirifle

    Joined: 7/6/2011
    Oh yes, this WAS with a fletched arrow, but that, to me, would only reduce how far it would fly tail out, not reverse the direction, right? Or am I totally wrong on this?
    November 6, 2012 at 9:55 pm #539750 Back to Top REPORT
    blood-bath2006
    Blood Bath2006

    Joined: 10/14/2006
    What does your idler lean look like at full draw? What bow, what DL, what draw weight, what vanes and how long?
    November 7, 2012 at 5:45 am #539751 Back to Top REPORT

    handirifle

    Joined: 7/6/2011
    What does your idler lean look like at full draw? What bow, what DL, what draw weight, what vanes and how long?

    Well, never looked at it. i just had the limbs replaced, and the guy was pretty diligent about measuring idler lean. I never thought about it, but I noticed he kept measuring it, but not at full draw. I’m not sure I could get a suitable look when I am holding the bow at full draw either.

    The bow is a Q2XL, 27 1/2″ DL, 61 lbs DW, 4″ vanes, no idea of brand. The arrows are gold tips devastator (Dicks sporting goods specials) 5575’s arrows are about 29 1/2″ long.

    November 7, 2012 at 8:47 pm #539752 Back to Top REPORT
    blood-bath2006
    Blood Bath2006

    Joined: 10/14/2006

    What does your idler lean look like at full draw? What bow, what DL, what draw weight, what vanes and how long?

    Well, never looked at it. i just had the limbs replaced, and the guy was pretty diligent about measuring idler lean. I never thought about it, but I noticed he kept measuring it, but not at full draw. I’m not sure I could get a suitable look when I am holding the bow at full draw either.

    The bow is a Q2XL, 27 1/2″ DL, 61 lbs DW, 4″ vanes, no idea of brand. The arrows are gold tips devastator (Dicks sporting goods specials) 5575’s arrows are about 29 1/2″ long.[/quote:2oia97ek]

    Check idler lean. It is impossible to get idler lean correct without being at full draw. He might get lucky, but chances are it is wrong. You draw and have someone else look at it.

    November 7, 2012 at 8:53 pm #539753 Back to Top REPORT
    spurhunter
    spurhunter

    Joined: 1/31/2008

    OK I have gotten pretty familiar with bare shaft tuning my recurve bow, but been some time since I tried new arrows/heads on my Mathews.

    I shoot left handed, so for most guys my results are opposite theirs.

    Here goes my question.

    When shooting my recurve (shooting fingers, off the shelf, no flipper rest or button), and the head weight for that particular shaft and length, is too heavy (weak spine) the tail of the arrow kicks out to the right. As I lighten the tip weight, with no other change, I see the tail come back to the center. If I get the arrow length and tip weight just right, it flies straight, unfletched.

    If i do this with my Mathews, shooting with release, and whisker biscuit rest, and the point is much heavier than the shaft has shot before, it shoots tail hard left, indicating the shaft is too stiff, right?

    These same arrows were paper tuned to 125gr heads, and left a perfect triangle in the paper, and have been very accurate. I have tried field points all the way up to 290gr and they still kick tail left. What am I reading wrong here?[/quote:22lziu8k]

    Sounds more like too weak on the spine. Too stiff should be a right tail kick as I understand it. Drop a turn or two on the limb bolts and see if there is any change. At 27.5″ DL and 29.5″ arrows you could also shorten them a bit or play with the point weight. Otherwise it could be torque issues or cam lean as mentioned above. I have always followed vince’s idler wheel method stickied here and rarely had to do different.

    November 9, 2012 at 11:10 pm #539754 Back to Top REPORT

    handirifle

    Joined: 7/6/2011

    What does your idler lean look like at full draw? What bow, what DL, what draw weight, what vanes and how long?

    Well, never looked at it. i just had the limbs replaced, and the guy was pretty diligent about measuring idler lean. I never thought about it, but I noticed he kept measuring it, but not at full draw. I’m not sure I could get a suitable look when I am holding the bow at full draw either.

    The bow is a Q2XL, 27 1/2″ DL, 61 lbs DW, 4″ vanes, no idea of brand. The arrows are gold tips devastator (Dicks sporting goods specials) 5575’s arrows are about 29 1/2″ long.[/quote:21dhy74g]

    Check idler lean. It is impossible to get idler lean correct without being at full draw. He might get lucky, but chances are it is wrong. You draw and have someone else look at it.[/quote:21dhy74g]

    What does the idler lean affect?

    spurhunter

    Remember I shoot left handed. Arrows too stiff kick tail left for me. That’s why this is confusing me.

    November 13, 2012 at 12:16 am #539755 Back to Top REPORT
    spurhunter
    spurhunter

    Joined: 1/31/2008
    Sorry,
    The left handed comment slipped by me. I understand your left kick=stiff now.

    Idler wheel lean can cause kicks just as hand torque can. Cables pulling the idler wheel to lean one way then the other through the draw and shot cycle. At best you tune the bow so you hit the sweet spot in the middle of the lean, at least that’s the way I understand it.

    I find it hard to believe you are overspined with 55/75s at 29.5″ and 61lb draw. I shoot 55/75s 28″ long with 125gr heads at 60lbs from a switchy and they are fine. Idler wheel lean or hand torque would be my best guess. Relax that bow hand thumb, forget about the rest of the grip and see if it makes a difference. FWIW, plucking the trigger won’t help much either. Had all the bad habits at one time or another.
    Sorry for getting in over my head, just trying to help.

    November 13, 2012 at 12:28 am #539756 Back to Top REPORT
    spurhunter
    spurhunter

    Joined: 1/31/2008
    Here’s the best summary about idler wheel lean:
    “*When paper tuning- A left tear and no matter what you do it won’t go away and the arrow is spined correctly, you can set the center shot about 11/16″-13/16 from riser to center of the arrow shaft and/OR put a few twist into the right side of the yoke”[/i:5w94mkpt]
    Quoted from LOST Arrow Archery’s great bow tune thread-
    http://forums.mathewsinc.com/archery-4/archery-tech-forum-11/bow-tuning-guide-updated-as-requested-178335/?highlight=yoke+tune[/url:5w94mkpt]

    Keep in mind this is referring to a right handed bow so reverse to adjust your left handed bow.

    November 26, 2012 at 6:22 am #539757 Back to Top REPORT

    handirifle

    Joined: 7/6/2011
    OK thanks, will do some more research. Has to wait a few days though, cause I have to get the Christmas lights out and hung up, BEFORE my Dec 06 shoulder surgery. And the lights now have to wait until I fix the clothes dryer that just quit on us. ](*,) Probably won’t be able to do much afterwards for a bit.

    Would like to try and get this sucker figured out too. [-o|

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