Prestige paper tear

Home Forums Archery Tech Forum Prestige paper tear

This topic contains 21 replies, has 3 contributors, and was last updated by gjarcher gjarcher 1 year, 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • June 15, 2013 at 12:18 pm #581168 Back to Top REPORT
    kipkrenz
    kipkrenz

    Joined: 10/5/2005
    Location: California
    View My Bows
    IMG_0167
    Two inch down tear if arrow is not on rest like shown.  Wife has two Prestiges and both have same problem.  New strings and all spec are right on.  Had it at a Pro shop for two weeks and they could not tell me why or fix angle of arrow. Have to loosen botton Limb at least two turns to make it tear right which takes specs go out.  Any one else had this problem with this bow.  We have 8 mathews bows and these are the only ones I have touble with.  Help any ideas why this is happening would be appreicated.
    June 15, 2013 at 5:55 pm #581201 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    I’m having problems envisioning what you are saying. The pic shows incredibly nock high, rest not in full up position or improperly mounted (not level)¬†… don’t know what to make of all that.

    The fact you have two Prestiges with the same problem is probably more related to who is setting them up than the bows’ themselves. {#emotions_dlg.mathews_peace}

    Here is my Prestige … nock height just a hair over 3/16″, center shot about 11/16″, arrow centered on berger hole, limbs max backed off 1/8th turn, shown in the ‘Capture’ position, not full up position as your pic appears. Shooting 29″ Victory VForce 350 w/ 125 gr broadhead/FP
    Prestige 003

    20 yd, FP and BH near same POI…plenty time to fine tune and set sights for up coming season this fall.{#emotions_dlg.mathews_thumbs_up}

    Prestige 001

    June 15, 2013 at 7:35 pm #581204 Back to Top REPORT
    kipkrenz
    kipkrenz

    Joined: 10/5/2005
    Location: California
    View My Bows
    The way the picture is shown is the only way it will not tear two inches down.  If I set it like it is in your picture which I know is right it tears down bad.  The rest will lift a little at full draw.  I have always set up all our bows and no problem with the rest of them.  I have no Idea why it does what it does  has me baffled.  Limbs all the way down,  arrow across berger button holes and ata and bh right and stright down tear.   I am Lost.
    June 15, 2013 at 8:09 pm #581210 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    If the bows are in spec (ATA & Cam Rotation) and meet peak DW, then you’ll have to¬†have the dealer¬†send them to Mathews to troubleshoot the limb deflections. Although, hard to believe two bows would have the same limb deflection issues unless someone swapped limbs from one bow to the other.

    Run a string from axle to axle and measure from limb pocket to reference string with limb bolts maxed¬†… Tiller should be within 1/8″.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by gjarcher gjarcher.
    June 16, 2013 at 7:22 am #581247 Back to Top REPORT
    kipkrenz
    kipkrenz

    Joined: 10/5/2005
    Location: California
    View My Bows
    I will try that.  Never thought about axle to axle instead from limb pocket to string.  I am sure the knocking point is moving when drawing the bow to full draw just could not  think of why.  Maybe I will change limbs from top to bottom and see if things change.   Thanks for the Help.
    June 16, 2013 at 9:03 am #581269 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    FWIW, I measured my Prestige with reference string from axle center to axle center, limb pocket to reference string:
    Upper Limb 7-0″
    Lower Limb 7-0″
    June 16, 2013 at 9:38 am #581273 Back to Top REPORT
    kipkrenz
    kipkrenz

    Joined: 10/5/2005
    Location: California
    View My Bows
    Did the measurement.¬† Top limb 7″¬†¬† bottom limb 7¬† 1/8¬†¬† so there is a difference.¬† Is that too much ?
    June 16, 2013 at 10:04 am #581274 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    It shouldn’t be too much, actually pretty normal to have -1/8″ Tiller¬†… back off the top limb one-half turn and you should be able to setup the nock height at 3/16″ above perpendicular and centershot at about 11/16″ and have a fairly good paper tear.

    FWIW, I rarely measure and set Static¬†tiller anymore except when I’m troubleshooting. I set the rest when full up¬†to support the arrow at the berger hole, set nock height about 3/16″ above perpendicular, make sure cam rotation/timing is set,¬†then draw and sight on target. Once on target, I start pulling into the wall, if the sight wants to climb, back off 1/4-turn on top limb, if it wants to drop, correct lower limb, until you can come on target and pull hard into the wall with the sight holding steady … another way to do this is to use a very long stabilizer and observe what the end of it does as you pull harder. This method will balance Dynamic Tiller of¬†the limbs.

    http://www.archersadvantage.com/TipSheets/TillerTuning.htm

    Some other things I would check first is rest mounting, timing, and fletch clearance.
    – The rest must be mounted horizontal when the bow is plumb. That way when in the full up position the launcher will not be leaning away from or toward the string. Leaning toward the string is the worst case, since the launcher will lift the arrow as it raises to rotate forward. Leaning away from the string will cause the rest to drop prematurely/inconsistently and string out the arrow’s POI vertically, with changes in nock height not correcting the group’s vertical¬†spread.

    – Use spay foot powder on the last 4″ or so of the shaft and fletch to see if there is any contact. No spray foot powder?… shoot a fletched shaft and bare shaft at 10′, they should have the same POI.¬† If not, then fletch contact with cables or launcher is suspect. Inspect the fletch to see if there are rub marks, that’s a ‘red flag’. Inspect the launcher for wear … if the wear is on one side or the other then centershot is off and can result in fletch contact as well as the shaft climbs the launcher arm.

    РCheck rest timing by shooting cock vane up, then cock vane down, it should clear both ways and the arrows should have same POI.

    … hope this helps. {#emotions_dlg.mathews_peace}

    June 16, 2013 at 12:01 pm #581295 Back to Top REPORT
    kipkrenz
    kipkrenz

    Joined: 10/5/2005
    Location: California
    View My Bows
    Just tried switching limbs top to bottom and limbs all the way down.  Rest all the way up and arrow slightly high nock.  Still 2 in tear stright down. tiller is the same now at 7 inches.  Had to loosen bottom limb bolt three turns to shoot bullet hole.  When at rest with three turns out it has the slant like first picture but when fully drawn it changes to almost level.  Do not understand why nocking point changes.  Changes cam to a longer draw length and same thing.   Will go back out and check everything you said again.  Thanks again for the help.    Pro shop gave up long time ago.
    June 16, 2013 at 12:26 pm #581297 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows

    … Do not understand why nocking point changes…

    It almost sounds like the outlet feed and inlet feed are not designed for the bow. First things that come to mind are:
    – Does the cam say Prestige on it?… is it the correct handedness, R/L? ¬†… not Apex 7 or some other cam?
    – is the idler wheel a small wheel, about 2-1/4″ diameter?

    I’m assuming there is no play in the top limb bolt as the bow is drawn, so the limb isn’t moving in the pocket.
    Also, are you the original owner? If so, this is shaping up to be a Mathews Warranty issue.{#emotions_dlg.mathews_peace}

    June 16, 2013 at 1:00 pm #581298 Back to Top REPORT
    kipkrenz
    kipkrenz

    Joined: 10/5/2005
    Location: California
    View My Bows
    Yes bought them both brand new.¬† Limb bolts and everything seem fine when I reversed limbs.¬† Cams both say Prestige and both are 25 ” cams¬† R handed.¬† Idler wheels are 2¬† 1/4 .¬† Everything seems good.¬† She has been shooting¬†them with the angle shown and the bottom limb backed out but when I put new strings on one I thought I would try to fix it¬† knowing that its not right.¬† About ready to give up.¬†¬† Thanks again for the replys and help.
    June 16, 2013 at 1:18 pm #581299 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    I can understand your frustration. At this point, if it were me, I’d take one of the bows to the dealer and tell him if he can’t solve the problem, to send the bow to Mathews on warranty repair. Depending on what Mathews says/finds, send the second bow in later or get dealer to fix based on Mathews’ solution.¬† I suspect that you’ll get a complete rebuild, if not a completely new bow.

    At least that way the wife will have a bow to shoot in the interim¬†… peace in the house, Priceless.

    June 16, 2013 at 1:30 pm #581300 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    PS – one last thought.
    Is the rest coming up in the last 1/2″ or less of full draw. If the rest comes up way too early it would be like short-stringing the cable, throwing the whole bow out of whack.

    Sorry for all these questions that must seem a nuisance, I’m sure you’ve been over all this many times.

    June 16, 2013 at 6:06 pm #581316 Back to Top REPORT
    kipkrenz
    kipkrenz

    Joined: 10/5/2005
    Location: California
    View My Bows
    Rest is a QAD Pro that she lifts with her thumb,¬† the last little pit lifts when at full draw only.¬† It drops fast enough that there is no contact with powder on arrow or any where else.¬†¬† Don’t mind the questions at all as they might hit on something I have missed.¬†¬† She has a Passion she can shoot also but likes her Prestige’s better.
    Over a hundred miles to take bow to a shop so have learned to do most everything myself. Guess I will make a trip down the hill and drop it off one of these days.  We have a big shoot coming up the first week end in August.  Always over 300 shooters and she always shoots it and was wanting to get serious about practice.
    Thanks   Kip
    June 17, 2013 at 7:05 am #581354 Back to Top REPORT
    lunzee
    Lunzee

    Joined: 12/21/2010
    Have you tried a different rest?
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)