Peep location

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 9 contributors, and was last updated by gjarcher gjarcher 1 year ago.

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  • April 1, 2013 at 12:07 pm #572374 Back to Top REPORT

    N spencer

    Joined: 2/10/2013
    Location: N.C.
    Dose any one know if there’s a standard peep location form the knock point. Im sure it varies from person to person, just looking for starting point.
    April 1, 2013 at 12:12 pm #572375 Back to Top REPORT
    straightedge123
    StraightEdge123

    Joined: 10/22/2007
    Try 5.5″ to 6.5″ for starters.
    Mathews S2 / Copper John 4-pin / QAD HD LD / Worlds Best Strings / 808 Bowslings / Easton Bloodlines
    April 1, 2013 at 3:14 pm #572397 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 70
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    Yes, it does vary from person to person. Measure from the center of the nock to the center of the eye at full draw and this will be your peep height (parallax). You will need someone to do this for you.

    If you anchor with the indent of the first and second knuckles on the jaw or with the “V” of the web formed between the thumb and index finger at the point of the jaw, then for the average person the peep position at full draw will be about 3.75″ above the centerline of the arrow. When measured on the string at brace, the height above the nock point will be 3.75″ divided by the sine of the string angle.

    Example: Creed string angle 34º, divide 3.75″ by .559 = 6.7″

    April 1, 2013 at 3:56 pm #572403 Back to Top REPORT
    99fatboy
    99fatboy

    Age: 52
    Joined: 2/15/2010
    Location: n.y.
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    we find the correct peep height by having the shooter draw the bow with an arrow, facing a target at eye level, eyes closed, find anchor point,open eyes and adjust according to what they see. it may take several times to get it perfect, but it’s well worth the few minutes it takes.
    black z7 magnum,tommy hogg,qad,b-stingers, vaportrail: blue smoke triumph,sword,hamskae,b-stingers:desert tactical chill R, tommy hogg,limbdriver pro v,ktech
    April 1, 2013 at 6:34 pm #572427 Back to Top REPORT

    conquestador

    Age: 63
    Joined: 12/10/2009
    Location: Upstate NY
    Like said, everything varies.  My Switchback measures 5-1/2″ from center of peep to nock point center.  My conquest is 5-3/16″
    April 1, 2013 at 9:39 pm #572446 Back to Top REPORT

    N spencer

    Joined: 2/10/2013
    Location: N.C.
    Wow, thats more than I expected, a mathematical equation to install a peep. I would like thank gjarcher for such an informative post. I have taken all the post in consideration and determined that my peep is close to the knock point. This is because that I had not determined my anchor point when the peep was set up. I’ve done a little  testing today and found that I need to move my peep about an inch up the string in order to get in a good anchor point. Thanks for the help.
    April 2, 2013 at 5:25 am #572476 Back to Top REPORT
    mbullism
    mbullism

    Joined: 8/30/2009

    we find the correct peep height by having the shooter draw the bow with an arrow, facing a target at eye level, eyes closed, find anchor point,open eyes and adjust according to what they see. it may take several times to get it perfect, but it’s well worth the few minutes it takes.

    This^… you can do all the math you want, at the end of the day what you see at a proper anchor (for you) is all that matters.  When at full draw and anchored you should open your eye(s), and it should just be there…

    .02

    “why do I want to buy a shirt that says Basspro across the front of it? When I go to Walmart I don’t buy a Walmart shirt...” -outta the mouths of babes...
    April 2, 2013 at 9:30 am #572490 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 70
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    The question was, “... just looking for a starting point.” The math gives a starting point. A nice thing to have when installing a new string and setting up the nock height and peep height for the first time. Final nock height and peep height above nock point will be determined after the bow is tuned, and by drawing the bow to anchor point.

    Something to be aware of is that merely aligning the peep to the eye can lock in poor form as well as good form.

    If the head is bent into the string to touch the nose because of a sharp string angle, or the anchor is very high or low, or the DL is way too short or long, the peep position will vary accordingly.

    FWIW, the peep heights on my bows, 28″ – 28½” DL are:
    - 28.5″ DL Z7 Mag 6-1/2″ ( 35º string angle )
    -28.5″DL  Prestige 6-1/4″  ( 37º string angle )
    - 28.25″ DL Monster 6-1/8″  ( 39º string angle )

    April 2, 2013 at 9:41 am #572494 Back to Top REPORT
    mbullism
    mbullism

    Joined: 8/30/2009
    …understood, I just think introducing math to it makes it more than it is, no matter how basic…draw your bow, have a buddy clip a clothes pin on it or a piece of tape in front of your eye..wallah-  starting point .02

    • This reply was modified 1 year ago by mbullism mbullism.
    “why do I want to buy a shirt that says Basspro across the front of it? When I go to Walmart I don’t buy a Walmart shirt...” -outta the mouths of babes...
    April 4, 2013 at 9:22 pm #572897 Back to Top REPORT

    BOC

    Joined: 6/12/2006
    gjarcher,

    Do you know the string angle for the Helim?  And I’m gonna push my luck here, but what about the Outback??{#emotions_dlg.mathews_big_smile}

    April 5, 2013 at 9:31 am #572914 Back to Top REPORT
    fats
    Fats

    Joined: 6/27/2005
    Location: In the evening shadow of oona-pa'is

    gjarcher, 

    Do you know the string angle for the Helim? And I’m gonna push my luck here, but what about the Outback??{#emotions_dlg.mathews_big_smile}

    I’m pretty sure that will change with the draw length of the bow.

    There are many ways to solve problems… the solution you choose is up to you.

    {#emotions_dlg.mathews_peace}

    April 5, 2013 at 10:56 am #572917 Back to Top REPORT
    bow-drawn
    Bow Drawn

    Age: 62
    Joined: 11/14/2007
    View My Bows
    Peep sight placement

    This is a practical walk you through peep sight location video.

    April 5, 2013 at 1:34 pm #572935 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 70
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    Let’s try to get back on track … the question is how to determine a STARTING POINT to install a peep when setting up the bow in a press … this is just a STARTING POINT, and is not the final peep position.

    All the advise about pulling back to full draw and opening the eyes applies to locating the final peep position and is of no help when setting up a new string in the press unless you already know the approximate peep location from prior experience…in fact, if the initial peep position isn’t fairly close to correct, either the shooter ends up all contorted to see clearly through the peep, or a lot of unnecessary work is needed to get it right.

    For those who just want to know: For short ATA bows 32″ and less, place the initial peep location 6.25″ above the nock point if the head is held upright at full draw or place the initial peep height at 5-3/8″ above the nock point if the head is leaned into the string to touch the nose.

    For those who want to know why: (Geek Warning … {#emotions_dlg.mathews_nerd} )
    Why is it important to have an approximate peep position and only temporarily tying-in the peep? When installing the peep for the first time, the bowstring will have to be balanced so that the peep comes back without rotating. If the peep has to be moved very far from the initial installation point it will twist out of alignment when locating the final position, then the bow will have to go back in the press and have the string re-twisted to get the peep to align again, then the string upper and lower tensions rebalanced so the peep comes back without rotating, and possibly the specs will have to be checked/reset. A lot of work can be saved if the peep is initially mounted near the final position.

    First, the string tag in a new string is only used to get the string properly installed right side up and to separate the strand bundles, usually of different colors, it is not a proposed peep height, so ignore it for peep position. How the sight is mounted has nothing to do with proper peep height, find the proper peep height then gang adjust the sight to zero for the first pin. If the sight gang adjustment runs out of range, then likely the sight is mounted incorrectly…fix the sight, not the peep height.

    Second, after getting the new string-cable adjusted so the bow is in spec, set the nock height 1/8″ above perpendicular with the launcher in full up position and arrow supported on centerline of berger hole (TIP: set the specs 1/16″ to 3/32″ short on ATA shelf-side and slightly over rotate the cam timing to account for initial string settling/stretch will save a lot of work). Only after the approximate nock point is installed can the approximate peep position be located and the peep temporarily installed so that it can be slide up and down the string. (TIP: Smooth peep’s string slots with fine emery to prevent cutting strands and temporarily tie-in peep with dental floss only around string and peep).

    Just to keep it simple, this is what I do when setting up a bow with a new string for someone:
    1. Make sure the correct angled peep is being used. 35/37º angled peep for short ATA bows, 45º angled peep for long ATA bows. Using the correct angled peep places the face of the peep more square to the eye at full draw. This is important for having a clear/sharp image.
    2. Have the person show me how they anchor and where the nock would be located (approximately) on the face. If the nock falls between the corner of the mouth and jaw (normal), I use 3.75″ parallax height unless they have an unusually short or long face, then I measure.
    3. If the person holds their head upright (normal with kisser buttons or long ATA bows) I use the peep angle. If the person bends the head into the string to touch the nose, I add 10º to the peep angle.
    4. I then compute the peep location. Remember, this is to just to locate a STARTING POINT, so measuring everything to a decimal place isn’t going to help.
    Example 1: if the head is upright. Divide the parallax height by .6, which is the Sine of 35/37º
    3.75″  ÷ Sin(37º) = 3.75″/.6 = 6.25″ above nock point
    Example 2: If the head leans into the string to touch the nose. Divide the parallax height by .7, which is the Sine of 45/47º:
    3.75″ ÷ Sin (37º+10º) – 3.75/.7 = 5-3/8″

    Now the bow is ready to be ‘shot in’ and tuned for nock height. If the specs have been set a bit short on ATA and slightly over rotated on cam timing, everything should be dead-on specs after about 25 shots with a quality string. Tune for bullet hole in paper at 5′ and 10′. Now the peep is ready to have final location determined.

    Draw bow level with eyes closed to anchor. Hold for a bit to settle in, then open eyes. Don’t move head or move bow hand to bring sight onto target, adjust peep height to align peep with eye, if the original peep position was close, moving the peep less than ±¼” should be all that is needed. If the peep rotates, have someone twist the peep to align it square while at full draw. Once satisfied, place the bow back in the press.

    Adjust string twists/tensions to get the peep to come back straight, no rotation. One-half twist of the lower end of the string will rotate the peep about 22.5º. While in the press, back off to tension the string and check peep alignment, then slightly relax string and observe peep motion … it shouldn’t rotate when tension is removed. Once you are satisfied, then tie-in the peep.

    There are many methods. I prefer the Jim Fletcher method. It provides a fairly secure peep location, while allowing the peep to be readjusted if needed (string creep/retuning), and by moving the upper and lower knots closer or farther away will correct to keep the peep square to the eye.
    http://www.fletcherarchery.com/howto_servepeep.pdf

    Now that the bow is in spec, tuned, and peep tied-in, zero the sight for the first pin/mark.

    … hope this helps. {#emotions_dlg.mathews_peace}

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