Monster – ReStringing w/ 8190x

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 9 contributors, and was last updated by wvbowhunter wvbowhunter 1 year, 11 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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  • October 9, 2012 at 6:33 pm #496775 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    Time to replace the 2009 OEM string … a bit overdue, actually. The string and cables look fine, have not crept, but it is 2.5 years and thousands of shots on it.

    I realize many forum members have reservations about 2-cam bows. First, the AVS is not a true 2-cam bow where each cam is independent and presents timing problems and requires constant checking and retuning. The AVS system slaves the cams, the timing holes make setting each cam as easy as if it were a twin solo-cam bow. So here is how to go about it.

    Step 1. Organize your accessories and tools, etc., needed to do the job. You don’t want to have the bow in the press, unstrung, then have to search the shop for a mis-placed part or tool.

    Shown above: Monster bow with OEM string and fall away rest; Allen wrench set including 7/16″ wrench; Needle-nose pliers and 5″ of thin wire bent in half (or cotter pin) for installing string grubs; Axle removal tool or 3/16″ rod (not needed for QC axles); QC Redhead Axles; Spot Hogg Infinity blade rest; 6′ tape measure; Notepad & pen; Winners Choice 8190x string set.

    Step 2. Diagram Cam string and cable routing. Take and record all measurements:
    RH bow: CAM B on top, CAM A on bottom
    ATA: 33.5″
    BH: 6″
    String Grubbs: 1.5″ from cam
    Present Centershot: 47/64″ w/ moleskin (13/16″ without).

    Step 3. Loosen Limb Pocket Locking Bolts and back off limbs 10 turns.

    Step 4. Place bow in press. Take care that the press does not contact the AVS or cam before pressing and that the press is adjusted to evenly compress the split limbs. Press the bow just enough to relax the string. Remove the string.

    Step 5. Measure from end of loop to bottom of string grub on old string (16.5″). Remove string grubs by pulling off the end loops. Using bent wire (cotter pin) and needle nose pliers, install string grubs on new string and slide into place. Take care to not loose the string manufacturer’s number of twists in the string. If string grubs fit loose, they will have to be tied in with nock points to hold in place; do this after the bow is completely setup.

    Step 6. Install String. Manufacturer inserts a tag to mark the peep location, this end goes on the top cam. Take care to keep the manufacturer’s number of twists.

    Step 7. Install cables. Undo old cable from cam and undo the connection to the AVS yoke ‘washer’. Connect new cable to the washer but do not pull tight and connect the looped end of the cable to the cam. Make sure the loop connection to the washer has twists in it and not left as a loop of individual strands. Repeat for the other cam.

    Step 8. Remove an e-clip from on end of the axle. Using Cam Axle removal tool (3/16″ chamfered rod), remove cam and lift free (for QC Axle, remove e-clip and pull free). Undo old AVS yoke pigtail from the AVS bearings and slide through the washer and looped cable. Install new AVS yoke pigtail, passing between the looped cable and washer, seating it in the washer groove. Place cam back in position and insert axle, replace e-clip. Repeat for other cam.

    When installing cables, cable for top cam passes through the inside cable guard roller (silver) and AVS yoke attaches to bottom cam. Bottom cam cable passes through outside cable guard roller (black) and AVS yoke attaches to top cam.

    Step 9. Press and unpress bow to get approximate specs. Twist string to get approximate ATA ±¼”. Don’t worry about BH because it will be too high with bow backed off 10 turns. Adjust cables to get cables in cam timing hole.

    Remove bow from press and turn limb bolts to maximum DW. Before backing off the bowpress, tension the string by lifting it to seat the string and cables into their respective tracks … double check that everything is seated and routed correctly … then back off press slowly, while holding tension on the string.

    Step 10. Place bow in press and set ATA and cam timing. Use string to get ATA, cam timing should remain fairly close to where it was when bow was backed off. Back off press check tension between cables and string to be about equal. Re-press to fine tune ATA, BH, cam timing and even tensions on cables and string.

    Step 11. Put bow in vice and install arrow rest. Set rest so that it is level with string plumb. Adjust rest for launcher to support arrow at berger hole (rest bolt mount hole). (Note: a blade will slightly lift the arrow when at full draw so install slightly below berger hole with blade at about a 30º angle. Nock point should be about ¼-bubble high for a blade rest install).

    Step 12. Check bow performance. Check Max DW; shoot through Chronograph at Max DW.
    Max DW = 65.7 lbs. This is 2.3# greater than with OEM string and bow in spec and timed.

    340.6-gr arrow, bow set at 65.7#/28″ (M6 28 80% DL mods), 323 fps.

    IBO rating ‘up to’ 353 fps.
    Subtract 8.6 fps for DW<70# = 344.4 fps
    Subtract 20 fps for DL<30" = 324.4 fps
    Subtract 4 fps Arrow Wt> 5 gr/lb = 320.4 fps
    Subtract 2 fps for D-Loop = 318.4 fps

    With WC 8190x string set, bow is shooting about 5 fps over IBO rating.

    Shoot bow about 25 times, then let set overnight and remeasure all specs. Next morning (today), top cam was slightly under rotated, added 1 twist to cable to bring cable dead center in timing hole. Bottom cam timing, ATA, and BH did not move.

    Step13. Put bow in final configuration for DW, DL module, and paper tune.
    Bow set to 60.1 lbs, installed M7 29 65% DL modules.
    340.6-gr ACC 3-49, 307 fps.

    Paper tune: #1 shot high-right tear. #2 shot, lowered nock point, right tear. #3 Shot, moved centershot toward riser, slight improvement. #4 shot moved centershot more toward riser, no improvement. #5 shot, moved center shot out away from riser beyond initial setting, tear improved. #6 shot moved centershot out more, near bullet hole.

    Final Step. Lock down limb pocket bolts.

    The bow is now ready to have peep installed, Sight installed and OT2 sight tape made, and walkback, then group tuned, and finally Creep tuned.

    I am very pleased so far with the WC 8190x string set. Solid, no initial stretch, plus the extra 5 fps I’ve gained.

    I hope this has taken some of the mystery out of restringing a Monster/MR-series bow and setting one up. The only tricky part is removing cams to install the AVS yokes, but everything else, the string cable routing, cam timing, etc., is just as easy or easier than a solo-cam, plus no idler lean to worry about and fuss over. :hugs

    … hope this helps. [=}=]

    October 9, 2012 at 7:02 pm #539371 Back to Top REPORT
    henro
    henro

    Joined: 10/9/2007
    View My Bows
    There was a post on AT I read today about someone who was ripping apart Mathews and one of his comments was the the AVS system is “severely untuneable”… What a joke! Great post! This will help out a lot of guys!
    Mathews MR5 29"@70lbs 620gr @ 261fps Victory VAP250 w/ SS insert & 190gr Steelforce Single Bevel African Phathead 22.75% FOC Elite Judge 29"@70lbs "When it comes to hits try for the best but prepare for the worst." Dr. Ashby
    October 9, 2012 at 7:14 pm #539372 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    … one of his comments was the the AVS system is “severely untuneable”…

    I have never had any bow that was ‘untunable’, provided the problem wasn’t traced to warped cam (dryfire, dropped), bent riser (improper bow pressing), mis-aligned limb pocket (mfgr warranty issue), twisted limb (mfgr waranty issue). I’ve shot PSE, Browning, Parker, Bear, Hoyt, and Mathews. I use to do work on Martin and Darton bows for others. All were a snap to get setup and tuned to shoot well. I even setup and tune 25 Genesis bows in less than 90 minutes for the Cub Scouts for their Day Camp…and the Cubs were so pleased because they had never shot so well before.

    The usualy problem is lack of knowledge, with one mistake compounding on previous mistakes, or just not knowing how to go about it.

    I have shot with top Pros who could pick up a bow, visually set the 2-cam timing, nock height, centershot, hand the bow back to you, and it never shot so well…that’s what experience and knowledge can do. :thumbup

    October 9, 2012 at 8:53 pm #539373 Back to Top REPORT
    bowhntr26
    bowhntr26

    Joined: 12/28/2009
    Brian i wish i lived closer to you so i could shake your had you do so many awesome posts and this is by far one of the best ive seen this will help anyone with a moster

    Does anyone know of a post going through step by step tuning a new bow

    =D/>” title=”Applause” />  <img src=

    October 9, 2012 at 10:35 pm #539374 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    FYI,
    Mathews’ OEM string is 24 strand and the centerserving is .125″ finished diameter.

    WC 8190x string is 20 strand, and the centerserving is .110″ finished diameter.

    Many nocks are .111″ throat diameter, like the Bohning Signature and Easton X-nock.

    October 10, 2012 at 2:07 pm #539375 Back to Top REPORT
    bow-drawn
    Bow Drawn

    Age: 63
    Joined: 11/14/2007
    Location: Ohio
    View My Bows

    FYI,
    Mathews’ OEM string is 24 strand and the centerserving is .125″ finished diameter.

    WC 8190x string is 20 strand, and the centerserving is .110″ finished diameter.

    Many nocks are .111″ throat diameter, like the Bohning Signature and Easton X-nock.[/quote:2ub6gu5f]
    Great post and many thanks for doing it.
    Also the OEM string set is made of 452X I believe. The recommended strand count is 24 for that product.
    Gjarcher many thanks for walking us through this deceivingly simple job that had me wondering how to attack it. I have a new set at home that I’m waiting to put on after hunting season. I knew what was needed but your illustration sure does look much easier. Again thanks.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:00 pm #539376 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    The string grubbs fit too loose on the smaller diameter Winners Choice 8190x string, so this was my solution for a ‘clean install':

    Position the Grubbs and mark on the string for each end. Slide the Grubb out of the way and make two whip finished overlays between the two marks. I used BCY Nylon #4 , if other serving is used, I’d recommend something very small diameter, like Halo. The Grubbs were hard to slide back in place, but won’t move under use.

    Final tune was with blade launcher support just a hair below berger hole centerline, nock height about 1/8th bubble high, or 3/16″ measured with bow square.

    Centershot tuned at 53/64″ (13.25/16ths)

    October 10, 2012 at 4:52 pm #539377 Back to Top REPORT
    henro
    henro

    Joined: 10/9/2007
    View My Bows
    I have 8190 from Proline on my MR5 and had to do the same with the grubs.
    Mathews MR5 29"@70lbs 620gr @ 261fps Victory VAP250 w/ SS insert & 190gr Steelforce Single Bevel African Phathead 22.75% FOC Elite Judge 29"@70lbs "When it comes to hits try for the best but prepare for the worst." Dr. Ashby
    October 31, 2012 at 4:31 pm #539378 Back to Top REPORT
    bow-drawn
    Bow Drawn

    Age: 63
    Joined: 11/14/2007
    Location: Ohio
    View My Bows

    Step 8. Remove an e-clip from on end of the axle. Using Cam Axle removal tool (3/16″ chamfered rod), remove cam and lift free (for QC Axle, remove e-clip and pull free). Undo old AVS yoke pigtail from the AVS bearings and slide through the washer and looped cable. Install new AVS yoke pigtail, passing between the looped cable and washer, seating it in the washer groove. Place cam back in position and insert axle, replace e-clip. Repeat for other cam.

    [/quote:2jdq3jcw]

    I’d liked to pick up one of these Cam axle removal tools and e-clip pliers. Can you all point me in the right direction to find these two. Thanks for the help. :D

    October 31, 2012 at 4:46 pm #539379 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    Cam axle removal tool: You have to make one out of 3/16″ stainless steel rod. Cut about a 6″ length of rod and chamfer both ends. If you have the welder, weld a T-handle onto the rod to make it easier to use.

    E-clip pliers can be bought from a number of sources, but shop around for quality and price.
    http://www.lancasterarchery.com/apple-e … -2009.html

    http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-5-Piece-E-C … 81-6683156

    October 31, 2012 at 5:10 pm #539380 Back to Top REPORT
    bow-drawn
    Bow Drawn

    Age: 63
    Joined: 11/14/2007
    Location: Ohio
    View My Bows
    Thanks again.
    October 31, 2012 at 11:36 pm #539381 Back to Top REPORT
    socalmonster09
    socalmonster09

    Joined: 12/9/2010
    Location: CA
    Photo Gallery
    thanks for the info gj going to save
    MR5 Black #60 25"dl MR5 Camo #60 25"dl
    October 31, 2012 at 11:49 pm #539382 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows

    Correction: WC 8190x string is 24 [/color:jc1em12t]strand, and the centerserving is .110″ finished diameter…[/quote:jc1em12t]
    The original post was incorrect in stating the Winners Choice string was 20 strand; it is 24 strand and the finished diameter is .110″, centerserving thread size is .021″.

    November 1, 2012 at 4:14 am #539383 Back to Top REPORT

    yotebuster1200

    Joined: 9/23/2009
    gjarcher Thanks for the great post. Another post in the bow tuning bookmark folder.
    November 1, 2012 at 4:42 pm #539384 Back to Top REPORT
    henro
    henro

    Joined: 10/9/2007
    View My Bows

    Correction: WC 8190x string is 24 [/color:1txkz6nb]strand, and the centerserving is .110″ finished diameter…[/quote:1txkz6nb]
    The original post was incorrect in stating the Winners Choice string was 20 strand; it is 24 strand and the finished diameter is .110″, centerserving thread size is .021″.[/quote:1txkz6nb]

    When I had my issue with ProLine with my original 8190 string sets they built me for my MR5, he had used 28 strands. They were binding and coming unserved in the cam track where the loop attaches. After 2 sets(and my attempting to retune the bow twice with new strings) the builder finally realized the issue and built another set with 24 strands. My bow didn’t put up good numbers at near IBO arrow weight but at my heavier arrow weight it is higher than IBO specs so I don’t care.

    Mathews MR5 29"@70lbs 620gr @ 261fps Victory VAP250 w/ SS insert & 190gr Steelforce Single Bevel African Phathead 22.75% FOC Elite Judge 29"@70lbs "When it comes to hits try for the best but prepare for the worst." Dr. Ashby
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)