Gun Disease

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 6 contributors, and was last updated by gjarcher gjarcher 1 year, 8 months ago.

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  • January 17, 2013 at 1:59 am #497628 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
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    Two years ago, I predicted one fall-out of Obama-care would be gun control.

    Interestingly 9 of the 23 Executive actions has to do with health care, health insurance, Center for Disease Control, and Dept of HEW policy and regulations. While it can be argued these executive orders only address mental health, they are vague, so can and will go far beyond mental health. For example, #16 makes it possible for a health provider giving flu shots to ask if you have guns in the home as a condition for receiving the shot (#21), and make this information reportable (#17), and under findings of #14 could classify you as a risk to children, hence prohibited from owning guns … any gun … as a ‘dangerous’ person according to DOJ.

    Maybe a more direct, and less speculative argument, is that anyone seeking psychological care is immediately reportable to the system and will be asked if they have a gun(s), not just tactical or assault weapons. Why? Because no psychiatrist will risk their practice or career or jail time or civil suit by not asking the pertinent questions and reporting them whether they medically judge the person as a risk to themselves or society. The upshot will be fewer people will seek psychiatric help for common depression, anxiety, etc., even if they don’t own a gun or want to own a gun they realize they will be entered into a Homeland Security/DOJ database as a potential threat and their lives will be monitored … everytime they board an airplane, apply for a job, etc.

    Mark my words, Health Care is the backdoor to circumvent the 2nd Amendment.

    As President Obama put it, “Are reasonable restrictions on gun control more important than knowing your children are safe when you send them off to school”. Paraphrased: Are your Constitutional Rights under the 2nd Amendment more important than a Government promise of additional security?

    Now, for more important issues … Where can I get 8 lbs of Reloader 22 powder, 5,000 Federal 210 primers, without triggering a background check, ATF visit, or getting fingerprinted? :whistle

    Gun Violence Reduction Executive Actions
    Today, the President is announcing that he and the Administration will:

    2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
    3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system. (e.g. Medicaid treatment records)

    14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

    16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
    17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

    20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
    21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
    22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.
    23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.
    [/quote:tdjknpzm]

    January 17, 2013 at 2:02 am #547489 Back to Top REPORT
    bow4life
    bow4life


    Joined: 8/17/2004
    Obamacare contains provisions to protect the Second Amendment right. [=}=]
    January 17, 2013 at 2:04 am #547490 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    Obamacare contains provisions to protect the Second Amendment right. [=}=]

    Yeah … and it contains provisions for hiring 16,000 additional IRS agents so you can get better health care. [-(

    January 17, 2013 at 2:12 am #547491 Back to Top REPORT

    Jay Miller

    Joined: 2/6/2010
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    =D/>” title=”Applause” />  <img src=Express yourself now - Fortune cookie
    January 17, 2013 at 2:20 am #547492 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    Specifically, the Executive Orders supercede the Obama-care provisions, that is the power of Executive Order:

    PUBLIC LAW 111–148—MAR. 23, 2010 (Obama-care)
    42 USC 300gg–17
    ‘‘(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN RIGHTS.—
    ‘‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness
    and health promotion activity implemented under subsection
    (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any
    information relating to—
    ‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed
    firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property
    of an individual; or
    ‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm
    or ammunition by an individual.
    ‘‘(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.—None of the
    authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection
    and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that
    Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the
    collection of any information relating to—
    ‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm
    or ammunition;
    ‘‘(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or
    ‘‘(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.
    ‘‘(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.—None of
    the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient
    Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made
    by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used
    to maintain records of individual[/color:1dn5a3ex]

    Compare the provision of Obama-care to the Executive orders I highlighted in my post. Clearly the President has no intention of honoring the 2nd Amendment provisions of the Affordable Care Act (ACA), and fully intends to involve care providers and medical databases in the National background check, eh?

    January 17, 2013 at 3:29 am #547493 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    Here is another interesting twist … Executive Action #3
    3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.[/i:2jep2qrw][/color:2jep2qrw]

    What ever would ‘improve incentives’ mean? … some sort of threat to withhold funds, some sort of DOJ injunctions like issued against Arizona? I just don’t like the tone of ‘improve incentives’. When I was a kid, bullies offered “incentives” for me to give up my lunch money, and I haven’t forgot that lesson.

    Sounds OK on the surface, but let’s be cynical …
    You apply for a Gun Season Hunting Permit, which goes into a state database, and in many states you are issued a Customer Identification Number (CID) number that is the database key for all your personal information, SSN included.

    Suppose the CID number and personal info for your hunting license application is submitted to the Feds under ‘improved incentives’ to be cross checked with the National Gun Registry database. Suppose you are not listed as owning a gun … then what, eh? Deeper investigation? Cross check with your medical records? Hunting application denied?

    Yeah, that already happens within Colorado for failure to pay child support … CID/SSN cross checked with state records and no hunting license if you are behind on child support … so don’t tell me it can’t happen on a higher level.

    As required by the Colorado support Enforcement Act, established by HB 97-1205 and implemented through 24-33-110 C.R.S., your Social Security number (SSN) is required to purchase or apply for all DOW licenses. Your SSN is not shown on your license. It is provided when requested to the Colorado Department of Human Services, Child Support Enforcement, as required by law and is used to enforce the law.
    [/quote:2jep2qrw] [=}=]

    January 19, 2013 at 5:59 pm #547494 Back to Top REPORT
    rsutton
    rsutton

    Joined: 11/27/2008
    Definitely not good Brian!

    I think there is enough Executive orders to Impeach the president let alone Fast and Furious and Bengazi!

    Sorry if there is a misspelling!

    January 19, 2013 at 7:37 pm #547495 Back to Top REPORT
    mikesmith
    MikeSmith

    Age: 64
    Joined: 1/5/2008
    Location: Republic of Texas
    Lawful laws, passed by Congress trump executive orders. The EOs cannot create law, they can only clarify laws already passed.

    Obama does not have the constitutional authority to change public law.

    January 20, 2013 at 1:31 am #547496 Back to Top REPORT
    buckeyebowman
    buckeyebowman

    Age: 62
    Joined: 9/9/2004

    Lawful laws, passed by Congress trump executive orders. The EOs cannot create law, they can only clarify laws already passed.

    Obama does not have the constitutional authority to change public law.[/quote:174zibcw]

    then we should be in for a fun time, as several of Obama’s OE’s require the breaking of HIPA laws passed by Congress. Here’s hoping that Rand Paul follows through on his promise.

    It's not how far you shoot, but how close you get.
    January 20, 2013 at 3:23 pm #547497 Back to Top REPORT
    mikesmith
    MikeSmith

    Age: 64
    Joined: 1/5/2008
    Location: Republic of Texas
    Guess who was WAY ahead of the health care gun laws…

    On August 1, 2009–just seven months into President Barack Obama’s first term–former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin predicted Obama would attempt to leverage health care to “take away” the Second Amendment rights of Americans.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government … -Called-It

    January 20, 2013 at 5:54 pm #547498 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows

    Lawful laws, passed by Congress trump executive orders. The EOs cannot create law, they can only clarify laws already passed.

    Obama does not have the constitutional authority to change public law.[/quote:3038phzh]
    That is a narrow interpretation and not one historically supported by the US Supreme Court.

    Even Presidential Proclamations have been used to suspend laws or Constitutional Rights, in effect creating new laws. President Lincoln suspended The Writ of Habeas Corpus and imprisoned representatives from Maryland without charges for an indefinite period.

    The US Supreme Court has ruled that,”Absent specific statutory authority, an executive order may have the force and effect of law if Congress has acquiesced in a long-standing executive practice that is well-known to it.” President Obama has used this by suspending enforcement of the Immigration laws, then in effect creating a new law by EO …the Dream Act. Pres. Regan also issued EO’s based on this principal.

    Executive orders do not require congressional approval. Thus, the president can use them to set policy while avoiding public debate and opposition. The difference between policy and law is not great, especially if the policy is enforced. Pres. Nixon used an executive order to set a ninety-day freeze on all prices, rents, wages, and salaries, without Congressional approval or public debate.

    … and there are many other examples of Executive Orders and Actions reversing law, changing law, suspending law, and for all practical purposes, creating law.

    To my thinking, Executive Action #16[/i:3038phzh] is directly contradictory to the ACA Protection of Second Amendment Gun Rights [/i:3038phzh]provisions, that EA#16 clearly is intended to grant permission to doctors and doctors working for insurance companies which provide health care to collect information concerning lawful gun ownership in private residences, how those guns are stored, what kind of guns are owned, etc.

    I interpret doctors asking about gun ownership is similar to a Consent Search for information … that is, you don’t have to answer the question. However, the future of Obama-care does not guarantee those who do not answer the question or who answer falsely that they will be afforded health and wellness treatment, eh?

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)