For 2014 what do you think Matt has up his sleeve.

Home Forums General Archery Discussion For 2014 what do you think Matt has up his sleeve.

This topic contains 123 replies, has 55 contributors, and was last updated by bow-drawn Bow Drawn 8 months, 1 week ago.

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  • August 18, 2013 at 10:00 am #590423 Back to Top REPORT
    chappy
    Chappy

    Joined: 11/11/2008
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    I’d like to see a 6″ brace height Creed that’ll spit an arrow 340ish.  Just dreaming.{#emotions_dlg.mathews_praying}
    August 18, 2013 at 10:12 am #590430 Back to Top REPORT
    bow-drawn
    Bow Drawn

    Age: 62
    Joined: 11/14/2007
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    More of the same as the last several years.
    August 18, 2013 at 10:51 am #590437 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
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    The only solocam in the Mathews line up that struggles to make 340 fps is the Z7 Magnum. There are no solocam “hunting bows” in the Mathews line up over 32″ ATA. There are no solocam ‘hunting bows’ with a DL greater than 30″.

    I would think it is time for a 34″ ATA Solocam 27″-32″ DL, 50 – 80 lb limbs that will make 340 fps IBO… then the Z7 Mag could be dropped from the lineup.

    August 18, 2013 at 11:08 am #590441 Back to Top REPORT
    chappy
    Chappy

    Joined: 11/11/2008
    View My Bows
    I forgot about the magnum.  Just too heavy for my taste.  The Helim at a 6″bh would be saweet.{#emotions_dlg.mathews_big_smile}
    August 18, 2013 at 11:59 am #590443 Back to Top REPORT
    topgun
    topgun

    Age: 24
    Joined: 8/9/2013
    Location: Texas
    Speed is not everything. It should be the third or even lower demand out of your hunting bow. Consistancy and accuaracy are needed more than speed. You want to miss fast, wow what a story that is back at camp.
    Bow design is a science. Most dont know how to understand all that goes into a design. I am an engineer so I understand mechanical and parts design. There is always a trade in any design. Unless you throw all else out the window of reason and design something like you speed freaks want. A bow that shoots fast, only. A super fast bow can not be shot with any consistancy. As a matter of energy storage, the IBO Speed  standards (70#, 30″, 5 grains/lb) puts a mathematical cap on the maximum  amount of energy that a compound bow can store.   I know this sounds anticlimactic, as we’re a culture of consumers who  expect products to keep getting better, faster, more powerful, etc.  But you must remember, the compound bow isn’t  powered by an external fuel , battery, or a computer processor.  Despite the high-tech talk and anodized  gizmos, your compound bow is still a simple hand-drawn weapon.  Its output can never exceed the input it gets  from the human body.  The human body and the bow provide hard mathematical limitations when looking for a very fast bow with anything close to target accuracy.  So naturally, we can’t  expect compound bows to perform faster and faster forever.  At some point, the output of the bows will  begin to approach the maximum input of our human body and it’s influance in the shot, and then the speed  race is over.  This is the performance precipice of fact when design meets paper.  I regret saying  this, but we’re essentially there now. A Super-Bow can’t waste much  energy on friction, noise, vibration, etc.   It needs every little ft-lb of energy to be stored by those limbs and  then successfully transferred into that arrow.   If it loses just 5% in the transfer (6.49 ft-lbs), we won’t have enough  energy to make the super fast like 380 and more fps.  We must also not mind a 0% let-off bow, and the harshest  imaginable drawstroke (70# from start to finish).  A high 300 to 400 fps Bow will not be for the  timid. But you would get your speed. Good luck being anywhere near accurate because you wont be. So, lets look at your need for speed from a realist side and be real.   At what point will you speed people say a bow is “too aggressive” or  “too harsh”?  Where is that perfect  blend where bowhunters will think a bow has plenty of speed while still feeling that  the drawstroke is smooth and comfortable?  The basic single and softer hybrid cams, such as the Solo Cam, with IBO Speeds in the 300-330 fps range. These cams are more aggressive than wheels, ramping to peak weight more quickly and then coming to full let-off more abruptly.  So they tend to store up more energy and shoot notably faster.  However, a Medium Cam is still generally acceptable to most shooters. Most shooters will describe this type of cam as “smooth drawing,” simply because peak weight doesn’t persist throughout much of the cycle. For bowhunting and general purpose use, this type of cam offers a good blend of  feel and performance. In my opionion this blend is exactly where a archer should want to be for accurate bowhunting. But go ahead and miss faster if you want. For Mathews to design a bow in the 340 FPS for you they would need to make use of the newer Dyad system. It is not what most would call a hard cam. A Hard Cam system, optimized for maximum energy storage and speed.  You will notice how quickly the bow ramps up to peak weight and how quickly it transitions to let-off.  You will also notice the distinct high-plateau where the shooter must draw the bow over several inches at peak weight.  This type of cam geometry will store dramatically more energy, and will usually have an IBO Speed of 340 fps or more.  The downside is that Hard Cams feel harsh. This is where Mathews design helps even out the storage of energy with the Dyad system. If your looking for a new speed bow design from Mathews, look not to the solo cam for that 340 and more FPS mark you want. Sure they have a bow that is suppose to be 340 in IBO solo cam. The Z Mag is a “ok” bow, it is not a great bow. Anyone who has shot an MR AVS design series bow or even the new Dyad design on the Chill will appreciate how much better the speed is achieved in the over all design of the Monster series than the solo cam. The solo cam “speed” bow can’t match the over all preformance of a monster when shooting in the higher speeds. Ask Matt to give us another Monster Chill in the area of 6 inch brace with an ATA not less than 33 while pushing the arrow to 340 – 350. It will not be a great line shoot bow, but it would be a bow accurate and fast for your bowhunting needs. If you want a Solo cam bow, which are great consistant, accurate hunting bows, be happy with the 330 IBO.
    Pull Shoot Score
    August 18, 2013 at 1:01 pm #590454 Back to Top REPORT
    chappy
    Chappy

    Joined: 11/11/2008
    View My Bows

    Speed is not everything. It should be thethird or even lower demand out of your hunting bow. Consistancy and accuaracy are needed more than speed. You want to miss fast, wow what a story that is back at camp.
    Bow design is a science. Most dont know how to understand all that goes into a design. I am an engineer so I understand mechanical and parts design. There is always a trade in any design. Unless you throw all else out the window of reason and design something like you speed freaks want. A bow that shoots fast, only. A super fast bow can not be shot with any consistancy. As a matter of energy storage, the IBO Speed standards (70#, 30″, 5 grains/lb) puts a mathematical cap on the maximum amount of energy that a compound bow can store. I know this sounds anticlimactic, as we’re a culture of consumers who expect products to keep getting better, faster, more powerful, etc. But you must remember, the compound bow isn’t powered by an external fuel , battery, or a computer processor. Despite the high-tech talk and anodized gizmos, your compound bow is still a simple hand-drawn weapon. Its output can never exceed the input it gets from the human body. The human body and thebow provide hard mathematical limitations when looking for a very fast bow with anything close to target accuracy. So naturally, we can’t expect compound bows to perform faster and faster forever. At some point, the output of the bows will begin to approach the maximum input of ourhuman body and it’s influance in the shot, and then the speed race is over. This is the performance precipiceof fact when design meets paper. I regret saying this, but we’re essentially there now. A Super-Bow can’t waste much energy on friction, noise, vibration, etc.It needs every little ft-lb of energy to be stored by those limbs and then successfully transferred into that arrow. Ifit loses just 5% in the transfer (6.49 ft-lbs), we won’t have enough energy to make thesuper fast like 380 and morefps. We mustalso notmind a 0% let-off bow, and the harshest imaginable drawstroke (70# from start to finish).Ahigh 300to400 fps Bow will not be for the timid. But you would get your speed. Good luck being anywhere near accurate because you wont be. So, lets look at your need for speed from a realist side and be real. At what point willyou speed peoplesay a bow is “too aggressive” or “too harsh”? Where is that perfect blend where bowhunters will think a bow has plenty of speed while still feeling that the drawstroke is smooth and comfortable?The basic single and softer hybrid cams, such as theSolo Cam,with IBO Speeds in the 300-330 fps range. These cams are more aggressive than wheels, ramping to peak weight more quickly and then coming to full let-off more abruptly. So they tend to store up more energy and shoot notably faster. However, a Medium Cam is still generally acceptable to most shooters. Most shooters will describe this type of cam as “smooth drawing,” simply because peak weight doesn’t persist throughout much of the cycle. For bowhunting and general purpose use, this type of cam offers a good blend of feel and performance. In my opionion this blend is exactly where a archer should want to be for accurate bowhunting. But go ahead and miss faster if you want. For Mathews to design a bow in the 340 FPS for you they would need to make use of the newer Dyad system. It is not what most would call a hard cam.A Hard Cam system, optimized for maximum energy storage and speed. You will notice how quickly the bow ramps up to peak weight and how quickly it transitions to let-off. You will also notice the distinct high-plateau where the shooter must draw the bow over several inches at peak weight. This type of cam geometry will store dramatically more energy, and will usually have an IBO Speed of 340 fps or more. The downside is that Hard Cams feel harsh. This is where Mathews design helps even out the storage of energy with the Dyad system. If yourlooking for a new speed bow design from Mathews, look not to the solo cam for that 340 and more FPS mark you want. Sure they have a bow that is suppose to be 340 in IBO solo cam. The Z Mag is a “ok” bow, it is not a great bow. Anyone who has shot an MR AVS design series bow or even the new Dyad design on the Chill will appreciate how much better the speed is achieved in the over alldesign of the Monster series than the solo cam. The solo cam “speed” bow can’t match the over all preformance of a monster when shooting in the higher speeds. Ask Matt to give us another Monster Chill in the area of 6 inch brace with an ATA not less than 33 while pushing the arrow to 340 – 350. It will not be a great line shootbow, but it would be a bow accurate and fast for your bowhunting needs. If you want a Solo cam bow, which are great consistant, accuratehunting bows, be happy with the 330 IBO.

    I disagree.  The Zmag is 61/2 or so bh and getting aroung 340.  That’s with the same draw as the z7.  I prefer the Helim draw to the Chill and it’s even faster.  A 6″bh Helim would be a shootable hunting bow which is what I’m looking for.  Some can handle a bow like this, apparantly you can’t.

    August 18, 2013 at 1:48 pm #590459 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    Wow {#emotions_dlg.mathews_shocked} … thanks for all the insight, but Why? That wasn’t what the OP asked. {#emotions_dlg.mathews_peace}

    I would think Mathews would fill the demand of long draw archers for a reasonably fast, ‘shoulder friendly’ draw, solocam with a reasonable string angle at 30″+.

    Afterall, my smooth drawing 35.5″ ATA 6″ BH Prestige, arguably the best all-around 3D/Target/Hunting bow for mid-DL archers, debuted 7 years ago and it pushes 332 fps IBO equivalent … 8 more fps after years and years of bow design innovation is too much to ask? really?

    August 18, 2013 at 3:45 pm #590474 Back to Top REPORT
    scfox
    SCFox

    Joined: 9/26/2004
    Location: Mn

    More of the same as the last several years.

    I agree. I really don’t see anything coming out that will have a tremendous ‘WOW’ factor. Not that this is a bad thing. Their bow line really has something for everyone. Speed, long draw options, smooth draw hunting bows, etc. One thing I would like to see is a 34″ solocam option.

    SCFox

    • This reply was modified 10 months, 4 weeks ago by scfox SCFox.
    • This reply was modified 10 months, 4 weeks ago by scfox SCFox.
    M7 Schaffer Opposition Axcel HD Axion stab
    August 18, 2013 at 4:33 pm #590482 Back to Top REPORT
    bootheel-boy
    bootheel boy

    Joined: 7/21/2006
    Location: S.E. Missouri
    Give us three bows in different axle to axle lengths.  Short, medium, and long.  Keep them all smooth drawing with an ibo of 330fps or better.  Make the longest axle to axle bow be able to accommodate up to a 32 in draw length.   That way everyone will get what they want except the speed freaks.  You can’t make them happy anyway. {#emotions_dlg.mathews_tongue}
    August 18, 2013 at 5:25 pm #590489 Back to Top REPORT
    statedriller
    statedriller

    Joined: 9/15/2006
    Location: Call me...867-5309
    Maybe a single cam crossbow…
    The end is near....
    August 18, 2013 at 6:15 pm #590514 Back to Top REPORT
    mikeday
    mikeday

    Joined: 2/28/2012
    I disagree with anyone that thinks speed isn’t important..of course shootability / repeatability are going to be part of any major bow design from any of the major mfg or even the lesser mfgs … a lot of mfgs get great speed out of a bow and it shoots great (pse/bowtech/bear for example) regardless of weather speed performance is 1 or 2 or 4 on the list doesn’t matter if the buyer has it on the top of their list and doesn’t even look at anything with a ibo of 340 or less (missed opportunity doesn’t pay the bills) I would like to see a 340fps single cam 30in ATA hunting rig at a lighter physical weight.  I would like to see a bigger valley in the creed .. lower braces and letoffs build speed so maybe have options (a lot of companies are getting the speed out of just those minor changes and those companies are getting a bigger share of the market and shooters are not noticing the 5% or the 1/2 in differences…  I shot a pse not long ago and it was a barn burner for speed…great solid back wall off a string stop system and had just over a 6in brace and was 75% letoff… im not a speed freak so my z7x is perfect but for those that want their cake and eat it too (like most of us) these are all things archers consider as they grow to be better shooters and want new top shelf equipment.
    August 18, 2013 at 6:43 pm #590539 Back to Top REPORT
    chappy
    Chappy

    Joined: 11/11/2008
    View My Bows

    I disagree with anyone that thinks speed isn’t important..of course shootability / repeatability are going to be part of any major bow design from any of the major mfg or even the lesser mfgs … a lot of mfgs get great speed out of a bow and it shoots great (pse/bowtech/bear for example) regardless of weather speed performance is 1 or 2 or 4 on the list doesn’t matter if the buyer has it on the top of their list and doesn’t even look at anything with a ibo of 340 or less (missed opportunity doesn’t pay the bills) I would like to see a 340fps single cam 30in ATA hunting rig at a lighter physical weight. I would like to see a bigger valley in the creed .. lower braces and letoffs build speed so maybe have options (a lot of companies are getting the speed out of just those minor changes and those companies are getting a bigger share of the market and shooters are not noticing the 5% or the 1/2 in differences… I shot a pse not long ago and it was a barn burner for speed…great solid back wall off a string stop system and had just over a 6in brace and was 75% letoff… im not a speed freak so my z7x is perfect but for those that want their cake and eat it too (like most of us) these are all things archers consider as they grow to be better shooters and want new top shelf equipment.

    I agree 100%

    August 18, 2013 at 6:46 pm #590543 Back to Top REPORT
    hotshot
    Hotshot

    Age: 54
    Joined: 11/1/2008
    Location: Oregon
    I would be happy to see a Chill type bow with a longer ATA plus a 340 min. FPS.
    When looking for a hunting bow I think the bow must balance all the features one needs. Such as accurate, smooth, quiet and fast.

     

     

    {#emotions_dlg.mathews}

    >>>>--Shoot Straight-->
    August 18, 2013 at 7:04 pm #590553 Back to Top REPORT
    topgun
    topgun

    Age: 24
    Joined: 8/9/2013
    Location: Texas
    Chappy Said: “I disagree.  The Zmag is 61/2 or so bh and getting aroung 340.  That’s with the same draw as the z7.  I prefer the Helim draw to the Chill and it’s even faster.  A 6″bh Helim would be a shootable hunting bow which is what I’m looking for.  Some can handle a bow like this, apparantly you can’t”.

    Like I noted, some people can understand bow design, some can’t. Apparently you didnt read my post well in the compairison of Solo Cam bows and other designs. As what you pointed out was exactly my point. And, I can handle my bow very well thank you.

    Pull Shoot Score
    August 18, 2013 at 8:19 pm #590577 Back to Top REPORT
    tedd3
    Tedd3

    Joined: 2/3/2007
    Hey topgun, for a guy who comes from Texas, where everything is bigger…your posts sure make you look rather small. {#emotions_dlg.mathews_shame_on_you}
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 124 total)