Creed Left Paper Tear

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 7 contributors, and was last updated by gjarcher gjarcher 1 year ago.

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  • August 11, 2013 at 2:56 pm #588538 Back to Top REPORT

    useyourbow

    Joined: 5/27/2011
    I have moved my rest as far right as I can with out hitting riser and still have left paper tear when paper tuning. Creed 70lb. limbs backed off 3 turns 30″ draw length, 28.5 ” ACC Pro Hunter 340, 100 gr. point. I shoot with an open bow hand and do not beleive it is hand torque. The rest is an Arizona Archery Pro Drop limb activated rest. No flecthing contact evident. Actually the rest is so far over it does not look right, off center. I plan on shooting mechanicals this coming season but my psyche  wont allow me to ignore the 1″ tear. Any suggestions?
    August 11, 2013 at 9:38 pm #588669 Back to Top REPORT

    Creed27

    Joined: 7/22/2013
    Having the same problem and haven’t been able to find a solution.
    August 12, 2013 at 12:39 pm #588954 Back to Top REPORT
    bow-drawn
    Bow Drawn

    Age: 63
    Joined: 11/14/2007
    Location: Ohio
    View My Bows
    EASTON TUNING GUIDE
    T
    ry reading this and I’m guessing you’ll see how to fix it.
    August 13, 2013 at 4:48 pm #589347 Back to Top REPORT

    nicklewhat?

    Joined: 8/11/2013
    Location: ok
    I found my Creed has natural torque to the right which may be causing your arrow tip to leave the rest to the right.  I had same issue and used my sight bubble to make sure bow was true vertical when paper tuning each shot.  It was really tough to do because you have to fight the bow to keep it from leaning to the right ( even with open hand)  Most of the left tear went away on the shots where bubble was right.  The rest of the left tear went away when I placed the center shot to 11/16 as opposed to 13/16.
    August 20, 2013 at 7:59 pm #591098 Back to Top REPORT

    Creed27

    Joined: 7/22/2013
    First let me thank the community. You’ve been a tremendous help. Through trial and error I’ve found the same thing. Really have to ensure the bubble (2 axis?) is centered. I’ve been able to get most of the tear out. What I’m wondering now is if cam lean may be contributing to the rest of the left tear and BHs flying right. I’m assuming these are related. Is that the case?

    The specs
    RH creed 65 lbs 30″ draw 30″ ata, same tear results with 29″ CE red 250 and 350; arrow insects nock when flush against the idler on the shelf? (The outside of the bow close to my arm) side. Is 5/16″ away from nock on the riser (inside next to cable rod and reverse assist) side. Looking at the Vince tuning guide it looks like I may need to put some twist. Am I off base?

    I’m beginning to enjoy this! Almost wish I had a bow press so I could tinker.

    August 20, 2013 at 8:01 pm #591099 Back to Top REPORT

    Creed27

    Joined: 7/22/2013
    Forgot to add that I’m also at 11/16″ center shot.
    August 21, 2013 at 6:20 am #591117 Back to Top REPORT

    Creed27

    Joined: 7/22/2013
    TTT
    August 21, 2013 at 7:17 pm #591257 Back to Top REPORT

    Creed27

    Joined: 7/22/2013
    Ttt. Anybody else run into this? Did yoke tuning work?
    August 22, 2013 at 6:07 am #591293 Back to Top REPORT
    vince71969
    vince71969


    Joined: 7/5/2004
    View My Bows
    The bow doesn’t have a natural torque. People do. I realize many people say they don’t torque the bow but everyone does to some degree. The idler is designed to track directly into the cam at full draw. that how it’s sent from the factory. People start twisting everything up until the see a bullet hole and they and they take the shootability right out of the bow. Center shot should be at 3/4″ ish. For everyone who has it as close to the riser as you can go, try standing at 30 yards and shoot a fixed blade head and a field point at the same aiming point. You’ll be amazed at how far off you are.

    there are so many factors that need to be precise to get a hole through paper. Form, draw length, face pressure, nock pressure, etc. Most would benefit from using the paper for setting nock height only, moving onto walkback tuning and from there onto group tuning.

    August 22, 2013 at 8:23 am #591309 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
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    … People start twisting everything up until they see a bullet hole and they take the shootability right out of the bow. Center shot should be at 3/4″ ish. … try standing at 30 yards and shoot a fixed blade head and a field point at the same aiming point. You’ll be amazed at how far off you are.
    … Most would benefit from using the paper for setting nock height only, moving onto walkback tuning and from there onto group tuning.

    {#emotions_dlg.sign_iagree} … Too much time is spent on paper tear or bareshaft tuning, which are just basic tuning methods, really intended to get you on the target. Real accuracy comes from intermediate and advanced Tuning methods.

    But any attempt at tuning before getting the bow properly setup usually ends in frustration.
    1. Cam Lean: because of the torque of the roller guard on the cable and string, the cam will have a slight lean at brace, this is normal. If the cam lean is so severe as to rub or nearly rub the limb, then take the bow to the dealer for warranty repair.

    2. Idler Lean: Use Vince’s Idler Lean Adjustment method to verify/correct the yokes so that the idler is straight up/down at full draw and the string tracks straight off of it … not like |\ or /| … BEFORE beginning any tuning method. “Yoke Tuning” to correct an existing problem is like putting a Band-Aid on the problem, which is bunk IMHO.
    http://mathewsinc.com/forums-home/topic/the-vince-tuning-method-idler-lean-revision/

    3. BEFORE starting any tuning method, adjust the launcher so that the arrow is supported at the berger hole and set the nock height/D-Loop slightly above perpendicular as measured with a bow square, 1/8″ to 3/16″ is usually enough for ICS shafts, sometimes a bit higher for fatshafts. By being slightly high any rest contact issues can be eliminated … the nock height is the first thing to correct once the tuning process starts.

    4. Eliminate any nock pinch BEFORE attempts at tuning. As the bow is drawn, the string angle becomes greater and the nock points close up on the nock, torqueing the shaft on the launcher, sometimes enough to lift the shaft up and off the launcher. Nock pinch is a major reason so many can’t shoot a Spring Steel/Lizard-Tongue launcher. If you have less than about a 1/16″ gap under the nock when at brace, you almost certainly have nock pinch at full draw.

    5. Properly spined shafts will make the tuning process much easier. Weak spined shafts magnify any deficiencies in bow setup or shooter form, and in general are very unforgiving, especially with broadheads. It is possible to get weak spined shafts to shoot accurately, but form must be exceptionally consistent. For hunting, weak spined shafts do not penetrate as well as properly spined or slightly stiff shafts … the difference of trying to push a noodle or a straw through Jello.

    6. Check for fletch contact using spray foot powder. While I don’t usually do this BEFORE beginning any tuning, I do it immediately if there is any persistent tear that doesn’t respond to centershot or nock height adjustments.

    If the bow is properly setup it should shoot with consistency and respond to changes in centershot and nock height. If it does not, then shooter form is interfering with the bow’s performance. The two most common interferences are bow hand torque and string torque caused by too much string/fletch contact on the face.
    Bow Hand Positioning: http://arrowtrademagazine.com/articles/jan_08/Jan2008-WiseOnBowHandBasics.pdf
    Proper Anchor: http://www.dudleyarchery.info/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=category&download=58:anchorage&id=1:article&Itemid=56

    Easton’s Arrow Tuning and Maintenance Guide is the ‘Bible’, although the Broadhead Tuning advice pertains to finger shooters and not that helpful for release aid shooters.

    To make the most out of any tuning method takes some understanding of what is happening when changes are made. When you make a change to see what will happen, that is Tinkering; when you make a change and know what will happen, that’s an Adjustment.

    August 22, 2013 at 10:07 am #591327 Back to Top REPORT
    vince71969
    vince71969


    Joined: 7/5/2004
    View My Bows

    To make the most out of any tuning method takes some understanding of what is happening when changes are made. When you make a change to see what will happen, that is Tinkering; when you make a change and know what will happen, that’s an Adjustment.

    pefect quote. Stealing it.

    August 22, 2013 at 5:44 pm #591441 Back to Top REPORT

    Creed27

    Joined: 7/22/2013
    Guess I hit a nerve. Certainly didn’t intend to do so. Just someone fairly ignorant on tuning seeking advice that’s trying to get BHs and FPs to hit in the same spot.
    August 22, 2013 at 11:38 pm #591510 Back to Top REPORT
    gjarcher
    gjarcher

    Age: 71
    Joined: 10/3/2006
    Location: Colorado
    View My Bows
    Huh? What?

    Vince was responding to nickelwhat?

    I was agreeing and expanding on Vince’s post…providing a ‘laundry list’ for the OP to run through before attempting to tune.

    Whose post is this anyway? … I’m getting confused. {#emotions_dlg.mathews_worried}

    August 23, 2013 at 3:50 pm #591615 Back to Top REPORT

    Creed27

    Joined: 7/22/2013
    Thanks guys. I’ve learned a lot from your previous posts. Got a bit defensive because I was the one that used the word “tinkering” and being as new as I am that’s what I’m doing. Having trouble removing all the variables (lean, rest, etc.) so that my input would yield expected gains.
    August 25, 2013 at 7:28 am #591825 Back to Top REPORT
    buzzcut100
    Buzzcut100

    Joined: 8/16/2013
    Try a different rest, had the same problem switched rest and got perfect bullet holes.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)